IceCasino - Акаунтът на играча е блокиран.

I have an account in this casino since January 15th. Yesterday I made a deposit and then played the "Big Bass Bonanza" game. I won a Jackpot and for me that was it. So I requested a withdrawal of my money. After 2 hours, my account was blocked and when I contacted the support team, they told me that after they investigated my account, I was accused of "money laundering". They are accusing me without any proof, I only used this casino for fun in my spare time, not for illegal income. They have my money and they don't want to give it to me. The withdrawal request number is: 0a9aeb7c-fb1e-414c-bc26-20195ce93d5a

Dear lj37172,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Have you accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus? Could you please advise if you passed the KYC verification before the casino blocked you?

Additionally, please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru. Alternatively, you can post it here. 

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Kristina

Cristina, thank you for your prompt response.

I will answer all your questions.

Have you accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus? About this, I had an active bonus, even so I played with my real money and what I won was with that money.

Could you please let me know if it passed the KYC verification before the casino blocked it? Yes, I passed the KYC verification with flying colors on 01/15/23

Cristina, gracias por tu respuesta pronta.

Voy a responder todas tus preguntas.

¿Has acumulado tus ganancias con o sin un bono activo? Sobre esto, yo tenia un bono activo, aun asi yo jugue con mi dinero real y lo que gane fue con ese dinero.

¿Podría informarme si pasó la verificación KYC antes de que el casino lo bloqueara? Si, pase la verificacion KYC con creces el dia 15/01/23

Thank you very much for your reply, lj37172. Before we contact the casino, could you please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru? Alternatively, you can post it here. Thank you in advance.

Hello! Thanks for the reply.

I attach screenshots, the misunderstandings are constantly made.

I am afraid that I have lost my money forever

Hola! Gracias por la respuesta.

Adjunto capturas, se hacen los desentendidos contantemente.

Tengo miedo de haber perdido mi dinero para siempre

Thank you very much, lj37172, for your cooperation. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Dear lj37172

Can you please tell us the following:

1) What is the purpose of registering the account at Icecasino?

2) Why do you deposit with one method and withdraw with a different one?

3) Why do make only a small amount of spins, and agree to a huge commission at the withdrawal (that is designed for anti-money laundering purposes and controlled by the regulator) ?

Kind regards

1) What is the purpose of registering the account at Icecasino?

I registered my account at IceCasino since I am interested in the proposal that there were only slots and not the addition of sports betting as is common in all casino pages.

2) Why do you deposit with one method and withdraw with a different one?

I deposit through Astropay since when I deposit money through this application, it gives me some bonuses that I can exchange for money in my bank account. And I withdraw through Binance since I can withdraw through local ATMs in much less time.

3) Why make only a small number of spins and accept a large commission on withdrawal (which is designed to prevent money laundering and controlled by the regulator)?

Because I don't want to lose, it's hard for me to earn money, and the one I use to play I don't want to lose too much. The last time I played I had won a bonus that was more than the amount I had deposited, therefore I chose to withdraw as I felt that I had won the amount that seemed fair to me.

1) ¿Cuál es el propósito de registrar la cuenta en Icecasino?

Registre mi cuenta en IceCasino ya que me interesa la propuesta de que existieran solo slots y no el agregado de apuestas deportivas como es el común de todas las páginas de casino.

2) ¿Por qué depositas con un método y retiras con otro diferente?

Deposito mediante Astropay ya que cuando ingreso dinero mediante esa aplicación esta me da como rédito unos bonos que yo puedo intercambiar por dinero en mi cuenta de banco. Y retiro mediante Binance ya que puedo retirar mediante cajeros locales en mucho menos tiempo de demora.

3) ¿Por qué hacer solo una pequeña cantidad de giros y aceptar una gran comisión en el retiro (que está diseñado para evitar el lavado de dinero y controlado por el regulador)?

Porque no quiero perder, me cuesta ganar el dinero, y al que uso para jugar no quiero perderlo en demasía. La última vez que jugué había ganado un bono que superaba el monto que había depositado, por lo tanto elegí retirar ya que sentía que había ganado el monto que me parecía justo.

Greetings all,

Thank you both for your replies.

Dear lj37172,

From now on, I will assist you with your complaint. I would like to ask you a few questions to clarify the situation.

How much did you deposit in the casino? What exact bonus did you use? Was this bonus lost, or did you win the mentioned jackpot while this bonus was active? If you were willing to accept a high fee for a withdrawal, does that mean your initial deposit has not been wagered completely (in accordance with the casino's terms and conditions related to AML)?

Hello Branislav, thank you for taking the time to assist me with this inconvenience. I will answer your questions.

How much did you deposit in the casino?

I made a deposit of $100,000 Argentine

What exact bonus did you use?

Use the 35 free spins bonus on the Big Bass Bonanza game

Did you miss this bonus or did you win the mentioned jackpot while this bonus was active?

This bonus was used in its entirety, I gained a multiplier but this was small. After finishing with the free spins I decided to do 10 spins to see if I had any luck and on the 3rd or 4th spin exactly I received a Jackpot that I was very happy about and which allowed me to receive a little more than what I had bet.

If you were willing to accept a high fee for a withdrawal, does that mean your initial deposit has not been fully wagered (according to the casino's AML related terms and conditions)?

Yes, my deposit was not wagered in full as the risks of losing that money in full are very high.

According to the company's T&Cs, I am fully aware that there is a risk of losing money when gambling through the services and I am fully responsible for any losses. I agree that I use the services at my sole discretion, discretion and risk. Regarding the losses, I have no right to claim against the Company; That is why I prefer to use only a little money to be able to try my luck, if I do not achieve revenue that day I choose to withdraw to avoid losing money unnecessarily.

I appreciate your cooperation Branislav and I hope that this inconvenience will be solved soon and my money will be returned in full plus compensation for this false accusation and delay in withdrawal.

Hola Branislav gracias por tomarte el tiempo de asistirme con este inconveniente. Voy a contestar tus preguntas.

¿Cuánto depositaste en el casino?

Hice un deposito de $100.000 argentinos

¿Qué bono exacto usaste?

Utilice el bono de 35 giros gratuitos en el juego Big Bass Bonanza

¿Se perdió este bono o ganó el premio mayor mencionado mientras este bono estaba activo?

Se uso este bono en su totalidad, gane un multiplicador pero este fue pequeño. Luego de terminar con los tiros gratuitos me propuse hacer 10 tiros para ver si tenía algo de suerte y en el 3er o 4to tiro exactamente recibí un Jackpot que me alegro mucho y que me permitió recibir un poco más de lo que yo había apostado.

Si estaba dispuesto a aceptar una tarifa alta por un retiro, ¿significa que su depósito inicial no se ha apostado por completo (de acuerdo con los términos y condiciones del casino relacionados con AML)?

Si, mi deposito no fue apostado por completo ya que los riesgos de perder ese dinero por completo son muy altos.

Segun los TyC de la empresa, soy plenamente consciente de que existe el riesgo de perder dinero al apostar a través de los servicios y soy completamente responsable de las pérdidas. Acepto que utilizo los servicios a mi exclusivo criterio, discreción y riesgo. Con respecto a las pérdidas, no tengo derecho a reclamar a la Compañía; por eso es que prefiero utilizar solo un poco de dinero para poder probar mi suerte, si ese día no logro rédito elijo retirar para evitar perder dinero innecesariamente.

Agradezco tu cooperación Branislav y espero que pronto se solucione este inconveniente y devuelvan la totalidad mi dinero más la compensación por esta falsa acusación y demora en el retiro.

Dear lj37172

Are you familiar with the AML terms, that clearly indicated, that one should withdraw the "winnings" (in your case almost the amount of the deposit) via the same method, the deposit was made with?

Can you please tell us the true reason you opened up an account? Since you pay a lot of commission at every withdrawal, obviously you did not register at IceCasino to play slots. Not a single of your deposits was wagered at least twice (x2). How can you explain that?

Thank you for cooperation!

Are you familiar with the AML terms, which clearly state that one must withdraw "winnings" (in your case, almost the amount of the deposit) via the same method the deposit was made with?

No, I'm not familiar with those terms. But even so, the page offers loading by different means and withdrawals also in the same way. Under no circumstances does the page specify that it can only be loaded and withdrawn by a single means. In addition, I already explained it, when withdrawing, if I request the withdrawal through Astropay I cannot make a withdrawal to my bank account, when doing it through Binance I can do it.

Can you tell us the real reason you opened an account? Since you pay a large commission on every withdrawal, you obviously didn't sign up with IceCasino to play slots. None of your deposits were wagered at least twice (x2). How can you explain that?

Why do they question my motives? Why do you question my reasons? Do they consider themselves possessors of the truth when they do not receive an answer that justifies their unfair actions? I already explained it, create an account there because there are only slots, and they seem more fun to me, in addition to this the page is not mixed with sports betting as is common with similar pages, which is not to my liking.

And as I said above, I use my money to gamble and try to win extra money, I don't want to lose it, I'm not willing to lose my hard-earned money.

His decision was totally off the charts, accusing me of something I didn't do. More than 35 days have passed since the incident and my money has not been paid to my account.

I believe that my situation has already been sufficiently explained, and it is clearly explained that I have not committed money laundering or any type of fraudulent activity of which they accuse me.

If you don't want to restore my account, it's up to you, but I want you to return my money, because you have possession of something that is my property.

¿Está familiarizado con los términos de AML, que indican claramente que uno debe retirar las "ganancias" (en su caso, casi el monto del depósito) a través del mismo método con el que se realizó el depósito?

No, no estoy familiarizado con esos términos. Pero aún así la página ofrece carga por diferentes medios y los retiros también de la misma manera. Bajo ningún concepto la página especifica que solo se puede cargar y retirar por un solo medio. Además ya lo explique, a la hora de retirar, si pido el retiro mediante Astropay no puedo efectuar un retiro hacia mi cuenta de banco, cuando haciéndolo por Binance si puedo realizarlo.

¿Puede decirnos la verdadera razón por la que abrió una cuenta? Dado que paga una gran comisión en cada retiro, obviamente no se registró en IceCasino para jugar tragamonedas. Ninguno de sus depósitos se apostó al menos dos veces (x2). ¿Cómo puedes explicar eso?

Porque ponen en tela de juicio mis motivos? Porque cuestionan mis razones? Se consideran poseedores de la verdad cuando no reciben una respuesta que justifique sus acciones injustas? Ya lo explique, cree una cuenta ahí porque hay solamente slots, y me parecen más divertidos, además de ello la página no está mezclada con apuestas deportivas como es el común de las páginas similares, lo cual no es de mi agrado.

Y tal como dije más arriba, utilizo mi dinero para apostar e intentar ganar dinero extra, no quiero perderlo, no estoy dispuesto a perder el dinero que tanto me cuesta ganar.

Su decisión fue totalmente fuera de serie, acusándome de algo que no cometí. Han pasado más de 35 días desde el incidente y mi dinero no ha sido pagado a mi cuenta.

Creo que mi situación ya ha sido lo suficientemente explicada, y esta claramente explicado que yo no he cometido lavado de dinero ni ningún tipo de actividad fraudulenta de la cual me acusan.

Si no me quieren restablecer mi cuenta ya depende de ustedes, pero quiero que devuelvan mi dinero, porque ustedes tienen tenencia de algo que es de mi propiedad.

Thank you, lj37172, for the additional information.

Dear IceCasino,

Could you please provide me with the player's complete transaction history and game logs?

We would appreciate it if the data could include at least the player's ID/e-mail to see a connection between the data and the player's account.

It is possible to share the data directly here, with your reply, or by sending them to my email address (branislav.b@casino.guru).

After receiving the requested data and details, they will be carefully reviewed on our side as soon as possible. Then, once it is done, I will inform you about the results of our investigation and about further proceeding with the case.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

I would like to add one aspect, the terms AML are mentioned, but they are not mentioned anywhere on the website www.icecasino.com

It is not found in its privacy policy, nor in its anti-money laundering policy, nor is it in its general terms and conditions. They make a point that is not found anywhere on your website.

Quisiera añadir un aspecto, se mencionan los términos AML, pero los mismos no están mencionados en ningún apartado del sitio web www.icecasino.com

No se encuentra ni en su política de privacidad, ni en su política contra el lavado de dinero así como tampoco se encuentra en sus términos y condiciones generales. Exponen un punto que no se encuentra en ninguna parte de su website.

Dear lj37172,

For example, I found this rules combination in the casino's Terms and Conditions (available HERE):

"8.7. In case of suspicious or fraudulent payment, including the use of stolen credit cards, chargebacks or any other fraudulent activity, the Company reserves the right to block Your Account, reverse any made pay-out and recover any winnings. We are entitled to inform any relevant authorities or entities of any payment fraud or other unlawful activity and may employ collection services to recover payments...

8.11. When making a cash-out request, certain points need to be considered:

...

8.11.2. funds must be withdrawn with the same method used for depositing;

...

8.11.6. if the turnover amount is 2 (two) times less than the deposit, the Company reserves the right to withhold 20% of withdrawal in order to cover payment expenses.

8.19. Other options and terms of withdrawal may be negotiated individually with the Website Administration."

11.1. The following activities are not allowed and constitute a material breach of the Terms:

11.1.2. using an unfair advantage or influence, including the exploitation of bugs, loopholes or errors in our software, the use of automated players; or the exploitation of an "error";

...

11.1.4. taking part in any criminal activities including money laundering and any other activity with criminal consequences;

11.5. If the Company has a suspicion that you may be engaging in or have engaged in fraudulent, unlawful or improper activity, including, without limitation, money laundering activities, or conduct otherwise in violation of the Terms, your access to the services may be terminated immediately and/or your account blocked. If your account is terminated or blocked in such circumstances, the Company is under no obligation to refund to you any funds that may be in Your Account. The Company shall be entitled to inform relevant authorities, other online service providers and banks, credit card companies, electronic payment providers or other financial institutions of your identity and of any suspected unlawful, fraudulent or improper activity and you will cooperate fully with the Company to investigate any such activity."

In the event that you found a way not to lose and even earn something using certain options in the casino avoiding normal play, it means that you have gained an unfair advantage and abused the casino system in your favor, which is strictly prohibited.

However, I am currently still waiting for the casino's response and requested data. As was stated in my previous post - after receiving the requested data and details, they will be carefully reviewed on our side as soon as possible. Then, once it is done, I will inform you about the results of our investigation and about further proceeding with the case.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Hello, lj37172

Please refer to the point 8.11.2. of T&Cs:

funds must be withdrawn with the same method used for depositing;

Dear Branislav,

The details have been sent to your email.

Kind regards

Dear, my statement may have been misinterpreted. It's not that I found a way not to lose, that doesn't exist, with the casino you always lose.

What I don't want is to lose ALL my money. Obviously I want to win, but this works like a system that benefits the system more than the player.

In this case, thanks to a multiplier, I managed to recover a little of what I lost at some point, and that is not illegal at all since I win thanks to a game mode typical of the casino (jackpot) that wins it fairly.

And on the subject of extraction from the casino, in their T&C they state:

"8.19. Other means and terms of withdrawals can be negotiated individually with the Administration of the website."

Therefore, you give exposure to the possible modification of the extraction methods, evidencing the possibility of loading with one method and withdrawing with another. And as I told you, the Astropay application allows me to easily enter my money but not the withdrawal, since for people from Argentina it only allows one withdrawal per month, which means that my earnings are delayed and cannot be deposited in the account. On the other hand, when I receive them through Binance, they can be transferred to my account without any problems.

Estimados, puede que se haya malinterpretado mi manifestación. No es que encontre una forma de no perder, eso no existe, con el casino siempre se pierde.

Lo que yo no quiero es perder TODO mi dinero. Obviamente que quiero ganar, pero este funciona como un sistema que beneficia al sistema más que al jugador.

En este caso gracias a un multiplicador logre recuperar un poco de lo que perdí en algún momento, y eso no es para nada ilegal ya que gane gracias a un modo de juego propio del casino (jackpot) que lo gane de manera justa.

Y sobre el tema de extracción del casino, en sus TyC exponen:

"8.19. Otras medios y términos de retiros se pueden negociar de forma individual con la Administración del sitio web."

Por lo tanto ustedes dan exposición sobre la posible modificación de los métodos de extracción, evidenciando la posibilidad de cargar con un metodo y retirar con otro. Y tal como les comenté, la aplicación Astropay me permite ingresar de manera fácil mi dinero pero no así la extracción, ya que para las personas de argentina solo permite realizar una extracción por mes, lo cual torna mis ganancias en quedar demoradas y no poder ser depositadas en la cuenta. En cambio al recibirlas por Binance estas pueden ser giradas a mi cuenta sin inconvenientes.

Thank you, IceCasino Team, for providing the additional data.

Dear lj37172,

As for your last post, it does not change the fact you avoided the minimum wagering requirements for deposits in the casino. The minimum requirement is to wager each deposit at least 2 times (200% of the deposited amount). I see in the data provided that you wagered something around 1% from the first 2 deposits before requesting withdrawals. Moreover, although the mentioned jackpot was in the amount of ARS 9,600, and you made more bets from the last deposit, all bets represent less than 2% of the deposit in question.

After gathering all the necessary information and details from the casino, we decided to close this complaint as unjustified. There are reasonable grounds to believe that your account was engaging in suspicious activity and was not used for gaming purposes, or there are even signs of possible money laundering. The casino acted in accordance with its terms and conditions, and we accept its decision to cancel your withdrawal and block your casino account. The applied rules were mentioned above.

I am sorry we were not able to help you with this one, but please, do not hesitate to contact us in the future, if you run into any issues with this or any other casino. We are here to help.

If you are not satisfied with the complaint solution, I recommend you consult the gambling authority that regulates the casino. In case of any questions, feel free to write to me at branislav.b@casino.guru.

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.Guru