Stoiximan Casino - Играчът е недоволен от задължителното залагане на депозит преди теглене на средства.

I asked for an 89 euro withdrawal. I received a message from support that I didn't wager 33 euros of my initial 50 euro deposit (that no bonuses were added). And they referred to me the terms and conditions 4.8 that say "4.8 If the value of a deposit is not wagered in full before a withdrawal is requested, Stoiximan reserves the right to apply a charge to the customer’s account to cover all reasonable costs relating to both the deposit and withdrawal. If necessary, the value of the withdrawal requested may be reduced accordingly. Stoiximan may also request additional identification documents for all withdrawals and perform enhanced due diligence in respect to withdrawals of funds not used for wagering." https://www.stoiximan.gr/article/en/game-plan/947/

So I replied that 4.8 does not mention anywhere that I can't make the withdrawal!

Instead, if I withdraw, it writes that they can charge me resealable costs related to the withdrawal/deposit cost.

I asked them to proceed with the withdrawal and charge me the costs.

They replied that there was no cost but can't process the request because there is 33 euro unwagered and I had to keep playing.

I told them many times that 4.8 does not mention that I can't make a withdrawal, but they insist that they will not process my withdrawal.

Dear GolDj,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked the terms and conditions as well, and this is what I found (here):

"4.8 If the value of a deposit is not wagered in full before a withdrawal is requested, Stoiximan reserves the right to apply a charge to the customer’s account to cover all reasonable costs relating to both the deposit and withdrawal. If necessary, the value of the withdrawal requested may be reduced accordingly. Stoiximan may also request additional identification documents for all withdrawals and perform enhanced due diligence in respect to withdrawals of funds not used for wagering.

4.9 If the deposit method of the account is a Prepaid Voucher (e.g. Paysafecard, Viva Spots, Top Up) and the value of a deposit is not wagered in full before a withdrawal is requested, or there is any evidence of a series of bets/wagers placed which results in guaranteed customer profits irrespective of the outcome, or where all the betting/wagering is deemed to be low risk, Stoiximan reserves the right to request a receipt showing proof of purchase of the voucher and/or the exact vouchers used for deposits before any withdrawals are processed. Furthermore, in case of suspected improper activity, Stoiximan reserves the right to refuse a withdrawal request unless a customer has not wagered the original deposit in full at least five times and at odds greater than 1.50.

4.10 Stoiximan reserves the right to withhold funds from withdrawals if these funds were not used for conducting betting and other gaming and gambling transactions."

It is not unusual for a casino to have this rule. Some casinos require deposit wagering 1x, some 3x or 5x, but you can find casinos with even higher wagering requirements for real money.

Mandatory real money wagering has been introduced by the AML (Anti-Money Laundering) Regulations for the Gaming and Gambling Industry and is usually set by the Licensing Authority. All serious and licensed casinos have to comply and follow these policies.

Please understand that applying an extra charge to a withdrawal from an unwagered real money deposit is one of the options. Casino has also the right to completely withhold such a withdrawal.

Please let us know if this explanation was satisfactory. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

The support response was

"Dear John,

We would like to inform you that the relevant department noticed that the amount you have requested to withdraw, is an amount resulting directly from a deposit and not from your activity on our page and this is something that is not allowed according to the Game Guide ( https: //www.stoiximan.gr/arthro/odigos-paigniou/947/#ParagraphA2 ) of our page and more specifically based on term 4.8.

You can find out about it, which refers to the specific term in the first sentence of it.

We wish you success in your business!

At your disposal for any additional information or question.

Sincerely,

Member Services Department"

In the email I received, they state that the amount is from direct deposit and not from activity. In reality, this is not the case. The amount of 89 euros came from a profit in a BONUS round that I won in a slot after a deposit of 50 euros. They also wrote to me about 4.8 and not about 4.10, which 4.8 does not mention anywhere that the withdrawal cannot be made as they write to me.

Do you agree with these 2 that I mention are support's fault?

The term 4.9 you mention to me is not relevant to my case because the deposit method was not a prepaid coupon/code.

Term 4.10 was not mentioned to me by support and I don't remember if I even saw it when I looked at the terms. In condition 4.10 it states that Stoiximan reserves the right to withhold funds... it doesn't state that x1 wagering is mandatory anywhere, but reserves the right...

In this particular company I have lost 1300 euros in slots (with 50 euro deposits that are lost in up to 50 spins of 1E, I know it's luck to lose 50 euros one after the other and it doesn't give anything) the way I make a deposit it has been the same for a long time and it seems incredibly strange to me that they discovered this now so as not to give me the 33 euros .... !

The deposit was 50 euros I asked for 89 euros... that is all this was done for 39 euros profit when I have lost over 1300 euros! Isn't that tragic?

Η απάντηση του support ήταν

"Αγαπητέ Ιωάννη,

Θα θέλαμε να σε ενημερώσουμε πως το αρμόδιο τμήμα παρατήρησε ότι το ποσό που έχεις αιτηθεί για ανάληψη, είναι ποσό που προκύπτει απευθείας από κατάθεση και όχι από τη δραστηριότητά σου στη σελίδα μας και αυτό είναι κάτι που δεν επιτρέπεται σύμφωνα με τον Οδηγό Παιγνίου (https://www.stoiximan.gr/arthro/odigos-paigniou/947/#ParagraphA2) της σελίδας μας και πιο συγκεκριμένα βάσει του όρου 4.8.

Μπορείς να ενημερωθείς για αυτό, το οποίο αναφέρεται στον συγκεκριμένο όρο στην πρώτη πρόταση αυτού.

Ευχόμαστε καλή επιτυχία στη δραστηριότητά σου!

Στη διάθεσή σου για κάθε πρόσθετη πληροφορία ή απορία.

Με φιλικούς χαιρετισμούς,

Τμήμα Εξυπηρέτησης Μελών"

Στο email που έλαβα, αναφέρουν ότι το ποσό είναι από απευθείας κατάθεση και όχι από δραστηριότητα. Στην πραγματικ΄ότητα δεν ισχύει κάτι τέτοιο. Το ποσό των 89 ευρώ προέκυψε από κέρδος σε BONUS round που κέρδισα σε slot μετά από κατάθεση 50 ευρώ. Επίσης μου έγραψαν για το 4.8 και όχι για το 4.10, που το 4.8 δεν αναφέρει πουθενά ότι δεν μπορεί να γίνει η ανάληψη όπως μου γράφουν.

Συμφωνείτε με αυτά τα 2 που αναφέρω ότι είναι λάθος του support;

Ο ΄ορος 4.9 που μου αναφέρετε δεν έχει σχέση με την περίπτωση μου διότι η μέθοδος κατάθεσης δεν ήταν προπληρωμένο κουπόνι/κωδικός.

Ο όρος 4.10 δεν μου αναφέρθηκε από το support και δεν θυμάμαι αν τον είδα κιόλας όταν κοίταξα τους ΄όρους. Στον όρο 4.10 αναφέρει ότι η Stoiximan διατηρεί το δικαίωμα να παρακρατήσει κεφάλαια... δεν αναφέρει ότι είναι υποχρεωτικός ο στοιχηματισμός x1 πουθενά, αλλά διατηρεί το δικαίωμα...

Στη συγκεκριμένη εταιρεία έχω χάσει στα slots 1300 ευρώ (με 50ευρες καταθέσεις που χάνονται μέχρι και σε 50 spins του 1Ε, ξέρω είναι τύχη να χάνεις τα 50 ευρώ το ένα πίσω από το άλλο και να μη δίνει τίποτα) ο τρόπος με τον οποίο κάνω κατάθεση είναι ο ίδιος εδώ και καιρό και μου φαίνεται απίστευτα περίεργο που ανακάλυψαν τώρα αυτό για να μη μου δώσουν τα 33 ευρώ .... !

Η κατάθεση ήταν 50 ευρώ ζήτησα 89 ευρώ... δηλαδή όλο αυτό έγινε για 39 ευρώ κέρδος όταν έχω χάσει πάνω από 1300 ευρώ! Δεν είναι τραγικό;

Since I see that I will not find my right and in order not to eat up your time for the 89 euros, I said to try and record the victories.

I made 114 bets of 1 euro of which 102 bets gave me 0 euro. The 12 bets alone gave me the following wins 3 / 0.8 / 0.6 / 0.8 / 0.4 /2.9 / 2.2 / 3.9 / 1.2 / 1.8 / 1.8 / 5.7 .

In total, 89 euros were lost in only 114 spins! O% RTP! Yes, I know, it's probably luck, etc., just like all the other 1,400 euros that were lost in the same way.

Επειδή βλέπω ότι δεν θα βρω το δίκιο μου και για να μη σας τρώω τον χρόνο για τα 89 ευρώ, είπα να δοκιμάσω και να καταγράψω τις νίκες.

Έκανα 114 πονταρίσματα του 1 ευρώ από τα οποία τα 102 πονταρίσματα μου έδωσαν 0 ευρώ. Τα 12 μόνο πονταρίσματα μου έδωσαν τις εξής νίκες 3 / 0,8 / 0,6 / 0,8 / 0,4 /2,9 / 2,2 / 3,9 / 1,2 / 1,8 / 1,8 / 5,7 .

Κοινώς τα 89 ευρώ χάθηκαν σε μόνο 114 spins! O% RTP! Ναι ξέρω μάλλον είναι τύχη κτλ όπως και όλα τα υπόλοιπα 1.400 ευρώ που χάθηκαν με τον ίδιο τρόπο.

I'm sorry to hear that instead of waiting for our assistance you preferred to gamble your winnings. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it now.

Please understand, the player is the only one responsible for their account, active balance, and all the bets taking place.

Please let me know if there is any additional information that I have overlooked, but I’m afraid I will be forced to reject your complaint as unjustified. I wish I could be of more help. Thank you in advance for your reply and understanding.

I got your original reply which was not at all helpful to my problem.

It was in line with the casino. Clearly nowhere in the casino terms does it say wagering x1 the deposit amount even if you insist.

It simply states that it reserves the right to withhold the funds. And how would it say X1 betting since there is nowhere to check how much you have bet, how are you supposed to know that?

I also see that you were not impressed that out of 114 spins 102 spins were lost! That is, the initial 89 spins lasted 114 spins before you lost them all! I also have receipts but you probably won't need them!

I have played in other casinos and I know this only happens here and not once but continuously. You will put 50 euros and lose it in 55 spins.

All the complaints about this casino are for this reason, but you blow the whistle!

Πήρα την αρχική απάντηση σας, η οποία δεν ήταν καθόλου βοηθητική στον πρόβλημα μου.

Ήταν σε κοινή γραμμή με το καζίνο. Ξεκάθαρα πουθενά δεν μιλάει στους όρους του καζίνο για στοιχηματισμό x1 του ποσού κατάθεσης όσο και αν εσείς επιμένετε.

Αναφέρει απλά ότι διατηρεί το δικαίωμα να παρακρατήσει τα κεφάλαια. Και πως θα έλεγε Χ1 στοιχηματισμός αφού δεν υπάρχει πουθενά να ελέγχεις πόσα έχεις στοιχηματίσει, πως θα έπρεπε να το γνωρίζεις αυτό;

Επίσης βλέπω ότι δεν σας έκανε εντύπωση ότι από τα 114 spins τα 102 spins ήταν χαμένα! Δηλαδή τα αρχικά 89 spins κράτησαν 114 spins πριν τα χάσεις όλα! Έχω και αποδείξεις αλλά μάλλον δεν θα τις χρειαστείτε!

Έχω παίξει και σε άλλα καζίνο και ξέρω ότι αυτό γίνεται μόνο εδώ και όχι μια φορά αλλά συνεχόμενα. Θα βάλεις 50 ευρώ και θα τα χάσεις σε 55 spins.

Όλα τα παράπονα για αυτό το καζίνο είναι για αυτό τον λόγο, αλλά εσείς σφυρίζετε αδιάφορα!

I wish I could be of more help. I’m sorry we couldn’t help you to resolve this case, but please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with any other casino in the future. For the abovementioned reasons, I will now reject this complaint. Thank you for your understanding.