888 Casino IT - Играчът е недоволен от RTP в казиното.

I advance that I am not here to absolutely want a full refund of the money. But a refund appropriate to the situation.

I noticed that on my gaming account in the last 2 years out of 888 most of which have made me win well is only by unlocking the casino bonus and never with the balance deposited. I will tell you that last year (2022) I uploaded 400 euros several times (for example 60 then 50 then 70 etc....) over a couple of weeks. Playing everything at slot bet 60/80/1 never had a bonus/freespin in all these sessions and sometimes, I mean sometimes maybe 2 or 3 times a payout x20/30 the stake. In short, it was always a downward spin. Non-existent RTP

I complained and they limited my account.

I contacted assistance and they reopened my gaming account at the beginning of 2023

In one week I topped up almost 400 euros more and more times as I mentioned above and I only made bets on 60/80/1 euro slot bets.

You will say… Well now the casino will have returned some RTP. The answer is no... A bonus/freespin paid 3x and the usual 2/3 paid at x20/30 the bet. Then I took 2 bonus/freespin with one paid 100x and the other x120 (total is around €170 of both). Then every slot kept pretending to give me a bonus/freespin and I only got 2, one paid 0 the other 11 euros (x11) It was just a negative spin.... In short, we understood. It must be added that every deposit gave a bonus of 20% of the top-up ... so imagine the turnaround I made, which is not just counting the 800 paid plus those miserable sporadic winnings (apart from a x100 and a x120). The total return is not even around 30/35% perhaps.

Calculating that I made all the spins to a bet ranging from 60cent70/80/90/1euro.

I remember that in the previous period where I refer to last year where I paid 400 I had still played the slots for a few days by depositing. without having had a decent win or a bonus/freespin... Then the above happened.

I contacted the assistance and received the usual phrases... That the casino is not responsible and the algorithms are certified according to the law etc etc etc.

But given the evidence tested on me at this juncture, the opposite is true.

It doesn't seem like an unfortunate or random series but more of a highly anomalous situation.

I certainly don't ask for a total refund... but a respectful amount that will compensate for this imbalance created.

Anticipo che non sono qui per volere assolutamente un rimborso totale dei soldi. Ma un rimborso adeguato alla situazione.

Ho fatto caso che sul mio conto gioco su negli ultimi 2 anni su 888 la maggior parte che mi hanno fatto vincere bene è solo tramite sblocco del bonus casinò e mai con il saldo depositato. Vi dirò che l anno scorso (2022) ho caricato 400 euro in più volte (esempio 60 poi 50 poi 70 etc....) nell' arco di un paio di settimane. Giocando tutto a slot bet 60/80/1 mai avuto un bonus/freespin in tutte ste sessioni e qualche volta, dico qualche volta forse 2 o 3 volte una pagata x20/30 la puntata. Insomma era uno spinnare a ribasso sempre. RTP inesistente

Mi sono lamentato e mi hanno limitato il conto gioco.

Ho contattato l.assistenza e mi hanno riaperto il conto gioco all inizio dell' anno 2023

In una settimana ho ricaricato quasi 400 euro sempre in più volte come ho sopracitato ed ho effettuato puntate solo su slot bet 60/80/1euro.

Direte... Beh ora il casino avrà restituito un po' di RTP. La risposta è no... Un bonus/freespin pagato 3x e parte le solite 2/3 pagate a x20/30 la puntata.poi ho preso 2 bonus/freespin con pagata uno 100x e l altro x120 (totale si aggira intorno ai 170€ di entrambi). Poi ogni slot mi continuava a fare finta di dare bonus/freespin e ne ho preso soltanto 2 uno pagato 0 l altro 11euro (x11) Era solo uno spinnare in negativo.... Si capiva insomma. Bisogna aggiungere che ogni deposito davano un bonus del 20% della ricarica... quindi immaginate voi il rigiro che ho fatto, che non sono solo da contare gli 800 versati più quelle misere vincite sporadiche (a parte un x100 e un x120). Il ritorno totale non si aggira neanche al 30/35% forse.

Calcolando che ho effettuato tutti gli spin ad un bet che vanno da 60cent70/80/90/1euro.

Ricordo che nel periodo precendente dove faccio riferimento all anno scorso dove ho versato 400 avevo comunque giocato alle per qualche giorno alle slot depositando. senza aver avuto una vincita discreta o un bonus/freespin... Dopo di che è avvenuto il fatto sopracitato.

Ho contattato l.assistanza e ho ricevuto le solite frasi... Che il casino non è responsabile e gli algoritmi sono certificati a norma di legge etc etc etc.

Ma data l'evidenza testata su di me in questo frangente è affermabile il contrario.

Non sembra una serie sfortunata o casuale ma più una situazione altamente anomala.

Io non chiedo un rimborso totale certamente... ma una rispettosa cifra che va compensare questo squilibri creato.

Dear Mark88,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. However, I want to inform you that we cannot make a case solely based on what you are describing. Sometimes you might get lucky and sometimes not; that's how casinos and casino games work. I would recommend reading our article about Payout ratio (RTP): https://casino.guru/learn-about-games-of-chance-rtp-variance.

If you have more information that would help our case, please forward it to me. Unfortunately, at this time, if we don’t have any evidence proving that something unfair is going on, there is nothing we can do. Please do not hesitate to contact me if there is anything else, I could do for you regarding your complaint.

Best regards,

Tomas

Since 220314

In practically every game session I have never gone into the black.

Apart from 230120 of +90 of the balance and 230120 +30/40.

For the rest never and never say once over the balance and the situation described above.

Where I went into profit loading 60 I lost 30 and went to 120

In the second loaded there too 60 if I'm not mistaken. lost 20 I arrived on 100.

Otherwise it was always a downhill spin.

Attached the situation you describe starts from 220314

Previously I managed to win something but not with my balance but with bonuses that I had left and unlocked.

Dal 220314

Praticamente ad ogni sessione gioco non sono mai andato in attivo.

A parte 230120 di +90 del saldo e 230120 +30/40.

Per il resto mai e dico mai una volta sopra il saldo e la situazione descritta precedente.

Dove sono andato in attivo caricando 60 ho perso 30 e sono andato a 120

Nella seconda caricato anche lì 60 se non sbaglio. perso 20 sono arrivato sui 100.

Per il resto era sempre uno spin in discesa.

In allegato la situazione che descrivi parte dal 220314

Precedentemente sono riuscito a vincere qualcosa ma non col mio saldo ma con bonus che mi era rimasto e sbloccato.

Thanks you for your reply and explanation. I am afraid I don't see anything unusual about your gaming activity and the subsequent RTP.

Return to player(RTP) ratio, also called payout ratio is a number that describes what percentage of each bet is statistically returned to a player from each bet (it is not saying what percentage of deposits the player will get back as some people may think). So if someone wagers 1000$ on a game with 90% RTP his expected return is 900. There are some facts about RTP that we would like to highlight.

First of all, this expected return is just a mathematical average. In short, anyone can get very lucky (or unlucky) and get a much bigger (or lesser) return than his expectation. However, if you play for a long time, your real return will be close to the expected return. In mathematics, this is called the law of big numbers. Many people wrongly believe that this means that if someone was very unlucky during some time period he should get very lucky over the next period of time. Or that if the red number won on roulette ten times in a row, there is a bigger chance that the black one will win next. This is called Gambler's fallacy and it's not true.

Past results have no influence on future results. The law of big numbers is saying that if you get very unlucky in the past you can expect to get average results in the future (you would have the same expectation if you get good or average luck in the past - what happened in the past just doesn't matter in the present). And this average result will give you closer to the average result overall. For example, if red won on roulette 8 times of 10 in the first ten spins and then 5 times of 10 in the next ten spins, it's overall 13 times out of 20 which is much closer to theoretical expectation than 80% wins for red from first ten spins.

If you want to learn more about RTP we recommend you watch our videos about this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0rVhAZL1-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9fzMDzadtA

Please let me know if there is any additional information that I have overlooked, but I’m afraid I will be forced to reject your complaint as unjustified. I wish I could be of more help. Thank you in advance for your reply and understanding.

Tomas your answer is a contradiction in my case... But that's okay. As always, the mess is justified for the unfortunate moment, even prolonged and out of place. First you say that if you play for a long time, your real return will be close to the expected return... Then that past results have no influence on future results.

RTP justified even for a long period of the casino which on average every 100 euros returns you 40-50 (accumulated with low hits but don't let you go into the black) and a couple of worthy winnings (it would be from 100x up) every 700/800. Perhaps you have not noticed the number of spins of the sessions to understand that there is something strange.... other than the fact that the 40-50 return wins have been replayed. Here we are not talking about heads or tails or red and black.... Maybe I'm starting to think as many people have written here on the site that you are on the side of the casinos because you deny the evidence of things. That's okay

Tomas la tua risposta è un controsenso al mio caso... Ma va bene così. Come sempre si giustifica il casino per il momento sfortunato anche prolungato e fuori luogo. Prima dici che se giochi a lungo, il tuo rendimento reale sarà vicino al rendimento previsto... Poi che I risultati passati non hanno alcuna influenza sui risultati futuri.

RTP giustificato anche per un lungo periodo del casinò che come media ogni 100 euro ti restituisce 40-50 (accumulati a colpi bassi ma non farti andare in attivo) e un paio di vincite degne (sarebbe dai 100x in su) ogni 700/800. Forse non ti sei accorto del numero dei giri effettuati delle sessioni per capire che c è qualcosa di strano.... oltre al fatto che le vincite 40-50 del ritorno sono state rigiocate. Qui non si parla di testa o croce o rosso e nero.... Forse inizio a pensare come molta gente ha scritto qui sul sito che stiate dalla parte dei casino perché negate l evidenza delle cose. Va bene cosi

I want to add that I have lost and won in the past like many people in various online casinos. But there was something strange here. Otherwise, if I would be so "stupid" I would complain at every game session lost .... Instead I'm complaining as it should be (because I have to be protected). From an RTP to how honest of the casino towards me for a long time.

Voglio aggiungere che ho perso e vinto in passato come molte persone in vari casini online. Ma qui c è stato qualcosa di strano. Se no se sarei così "scemo" mi lamenterei ad ogni sessione di gioco persa.... Invece mi sto lamentando come giusto che sia (perché devo essere tutelato). Da un RTP al quanto onesto del casinò nei miei confronti per un lungo periodo.

Thanks for your comments, Mark88.

The sample size of one player is simply too small to conclude the RTP is skewed one way or another. Please remember that RTP for a game is balanced around the existence of big wins the player can achieve. As proportionately fewer players will win a 'jackpot', more players will experience a lower RTP as a result.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, this complaint will now be rejected. Thank you for your understanding, I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into issues with any online casino in the future.